I want to offer to exchange experience in the principles of creating 3D models and designing through personal messages. This communication will be interesting to design engineers (mechanical engineers) with a wealth of experience (definitely not beginners).
I am interested to know how specialists work in different countries
Apparently I somehow expressed my thought incorrectly, since you decided to practice your wit. If you have no desire to communicate, then you should not give any advice when it is not asked.
HI Tim, I am an industrial drawing engineer in Iran and I am eager to exchange information with you. where are you from? In what field do you work?
in depends what professional do you need. For example: sheet metalwork, CADCAM, CAE, Scanning n RE, jig n fixtures, automation, mold design, product design, CAD translator, structural design, CME (Civil + Mechanical Engineering), 2D3D CAD software etc.
sorry for the flippant post, but I stand by it for anyone wanting to learn the principles of creating 3d models.
Pick a program, go to YouTube and go through the tutorials. Where possible get manuals for the software and study them. The only way is practice.
I have worked with ptc cad for over 20 years and seen models by other people, I see no common way of creating a 3d model in Creo.
The principles of design is another subject. There are many books, tutorials, and classes out there purporting to teach design and I must have read 20 or 30 of them, in engineering and art and there are few common threads.
We all work differently, we all design differently, we all model differently.
For me, learning to design has been a journey, and while I am an expert in design, there are still things that i could learn, but I know enough through tens of thousands of hours practicing
No problem for the first message. Let's consider this an unfortunate misunderstanding.
Let me explain my position for everyone's understanding. I did not create this discussion in order to be prompted which literature to read or educational lessons to watch. I can teach and I'm doing it. The idea of the discussion is to find out how specific specialists work in other countries and tell how I and the specialists I know work. discuss the advantages and disadvantages of design approaches. This is the exchange of experience.
If you are interested in this, then I am ready to continue communication in personal correspondence.
I like this discussion as I do not agree with you about the ability to teach anyone how to design anything that has not been before.
It has been my experience when working, on multi-million dollar projects to design an engine, from a clean sheet, the permanent graduate engineers, from Cummins and Caterpillar, with the top marks in degrees from the finest university's, have as much idea about original design as monkeys.
A hero of mine Richard Feynman, a noble prize winning physicist, who worked on the Manhattan project creating the first nuclear bomb.
He is a legendary teacher of physics and his lectures are still studied today.
Here is what he said about teaching to a group of undergraduate, postgraduate and lecturers at Caltech University:
" The problem of how to deduce new things from old, and how to solve problems, is really very difficult to teach, and I don't really know how to do it (l don't know how to tell you something that will transform you from a person who can't analyze new situations or solve problems, to a person who can. "
If you can do better than Richard Feynman I would be most interested in you teaching me how to design.
Every design i have ever done has been the result of trial and error and redesign. I have never finished a one of my design, they were taken from me when they were good enough for my employer and I still had ideas about how to improve on them.
The philosophy of design is a subject in itself. Really good engineers and designers did not get where they are because someone “trained” them. To a large extent you either have the innate ability or you don’t. There are lots of facts, figures, and methods that can be learned. The ability to apply them in new and novel ways to actually solve problems is another matter. It’s one thing to know trig and calculus by the book. It’s quite another to have a feel for the numbers and know instinctively how to apply them.
As an “engineer” just months from official retirement, I’ve had a long and very rewarding career. Both from a standpoint of being involved in many very interesting projects and also the financial reward that comes from being in demand. But I have no degree. I’ve taken a lot of college courses as I saw the need but never felt the desire nor need to get that piece of paper.
I had one particular engineering student take me to task one day. Saying I shouldn’t be allowed to do engineering work when there are so many degreed engineers looking for work. I explained to him that the degree, when he gets it, proves he might have the propensity to become an engineer. But it doesn’t in any way mean he has achieved the level of engineer. There is a lot more to it than what someone has taught you.
I have known some degreed engineers that couldn’t design their way out of a wet paper bag. They obviously know a lot or they wouldn’t have the degree. They will likely have good careers ahead of them anyway because many companies have the need just to have someone with that degree whether can can perform or not. I kind of feel sorry for these types. On the other hand some of the best engineers and designers are the ones that worked their way up through the ranks and actually “learned” what to do from the school of hard knocks. Their degree, if they had one, was inconsequential.
My point is: sharing information, techniques and methods is great. But I’m afraid most of your respondents will be nothing but hoarders of this information without any ability to actually use it.
Those who can, do.
Those who can’t, teach.
(That’s not to say teachers can’t “do”. Some of the best “doers” have been the best teachers. But those who can’t apply what they’ve learned usually turn to teaching.)
I agree totally with Bob.
I feel sorry for the new age, degree qualified engineer. For a lot of them it was a dream to become an engineer, and they followed the path laid down to them by people who earned their money in the classroom, having learned their skills in a classroom.
There teachers learnt their skills in the classroom and lecture halls, having never set foot on a shop floor, never getting dirty, never risking life and limb around the tools that formed and cut metal.
I met a lot of these youngsters in industry, coming into engineering from school and university, some keen to learn to design and make, but most keen to climb the ladder of bosses of bosses. They all had a great financial debt to pay for their education.
I have just been looking at the Cummins engineering design standard for ROD, CONNECTING, PRODUCT TECHNOLOGY PRACTICE (DESIGN), that I was given when I took over the design of the conrods for the Cummins Hedgehog Engine.
I find it inconceivable that a permanent engineer at an engine manufacturing establishment would not want to work on a conrod, and yet no-one stepped up when the design was rejected because of the reality of manufacture.
I was employed as contractor, on a 3 month contract, extended 7 times. I left when my designs where approved and a few of the permanent staff took over my work, added a word or two to my documents and drawings, moved the part number on my CAD models and signed their names on thousands of hours of my work.
I ignored it when given and was curious, following this conversation to see exactly what it was that the Cummins design team had been doing in the years before I arrived at the project.
The document is 130 pages long. It references a further 35 Cummins Engineering Standards, and a further 43 books and papers, used in its preparation and titled Reference Reading.
It does not mention the little trick I used on the small end, given to me by the only engineer at Cummins I respected, who was sacked from lead engineer on the Hedgehog engine for his refusal to "sign off" incompetent engineering work on the engine.
The tolerances I was given for dimension, position, straightness, finish, etc etc, where thrown out the window when the first draft drawing was presented to the supplier for manufacture.
The suppliers manufacturing engineer was an ex toolmaker and had overseen the manufacture of millions of conrods for Ford, Iveco, Perkins, Daimler , Nissan, GM, Harley Davidson, JCB, Renault Trucks, Mercury and many more.
He told me that he could make the conrod to work from the original drawing tolerances or he could make it fail from the original tolerances. It was a pleasure to work with him.
Judging by your reports, the same problem is observed in different countries. But I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the essence of this discussion is not to teach someone. The essence of this discussion is the expansion of horizons. Everyone I correspond with can confirm that I am not asking to send me models or teach me anything. These dialogues follow a completely different plan.
Therefore, I propose to stick to the main topic of discussion.
This is a fantastic post and very accurate too. Thanks sir. :D
Well to be frank. Specialists work in different countries like elsewhere. They specialize not just with design but knowing how to work with the tools they have, the surroundings, the history of a project... so many factors. I am afraid there isn't any one correct way of doing things.
I am still unsure if you are looking for something more concrete.
Please tell me how you came to the conclusion after reading the phrases "I am interested in learning how specialists work in different countries" and "The essence of this discussion is expanding horizons" that I am looking for "one right way"?
The tools and materials one has at their disposal has everything to do with how specialists work in their respective locations. An engineer trying to design and build a wind powered water pump in the middle of Africa will use techniques completely different from those used in the middle of Silicon Valley. Resources and abilities may be vastly different. While we could share those techniques, they may be completely meaningless outside the context of the location and the individual.
I have certain types of equipment and talents available in the machine shop I manage. The designs I create are geared specifically for this machine shop. Designs that I farm out to other machine shops in the same city are oftentimes vastly different. I think one of the key techniques a designer should learn is how to stay within the capabilities of the shop destined to build their designs. For high tech designs that push the envelope, developing new fabrication techniques may require more design work than the design of the finished part itself.
Good engineers and designers are those that have their MBWA. (Manager By Walking Around.) They get up and get out to see what’s going on in the shop. They learn the capabilities and talents at their disposal. Techniques learned from some far off place, even the shop next door, may not be applicable to their locality.
This brings me to something I think has set me apart from many colleagues. The ability to learn new things on my own. If there’s something I don’t know how to do, I figure it out. I don’t have the luxury of going to class or turning to another expert. Engineers need to learn how to learn. The best knowledge is that gained outside the classroom and without a teacher. In the internet age, there is a vast, almost infinite amount of knowledge available on just about any subject. If you need someone to specifically share their knowledge, much less teach it to you, then your not going to make it.
Thank you for the right advice. I independently came to this idea at the beginning of my working career.
And let me explain my idea again in other words (apparently my English is not good enough and not everyone understands me): I'm not interested in what people think about my idea of sharing experiences. I am interested in everyone who is ready and willing to talk about their approach to work.
Specifically, your approach is clear to me and if you have no desire to go into private messages, then please stop giving me advice. I understood everything even in your first answer.
“I am interested to know how specialists work in different countries”
I’m not giving you advice. My responses thus far are how I work and get things done. It is the primary principal I use to create 3D models. I design based not just upon the end result desired but upon who and how the design will be fabricated. That is my approach to getting work done. There are hundreds of tutorials and instructions on the finer points of how to operate the design software. There are thousands of “designers” that are experts at making the software perform wonderful feats. Producing pretty renderings and ultra detailed 3D models. But contrary to popular believe that is not what makes a good designer.
This is a public forum. My responses will remain public.
ok. I hope you told me everything you thought))
I am also interested. We can create a Whatsapp, Telegram group chat and discuss modeling techniques and tutorials. However, we should break the chats for each creo, solidworks, NX, Catia etc???? Say Creo chat will include molding, mechanism, modeling, drawing discussion all in one. In order to avoid confusion
I am in one chat for FEA modeling, topics include Abaqus, Ansys, meshing, all in one. etc